Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 27 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:03 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Has the Church released any guidelines on using non-standard pronouns?

Since it's no longer unheard of that someone born male will wish to be refereed to as "she" or even "they", I'm unsure how to response.

If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men. Rom 12:18

It's a lot of conflict to stick your neck out on this issue, but if it's a sin then it's a compromise one can't make.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:24 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75642
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Has the Church released any guidelines on using non-standard pronouns?



Why would the Church do such a thing? :scratch:

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:38 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Doom wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Has the Church released any guidelines on using non-standard pronouns?



Why would the Church do such a thing? :scratch:


To give some moral guidance. They have guidelines on hypnosis

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:47 pm 
Offline
Corporate Minion Moderator
Corporate Minion Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:18 pm
Posts: 17922
Location: Just visiting this planet.
Religion: Finally Catholic!
Church Affiliations: Legion of Mary, SVdP
God forbid that He allow Holy Mother Church to commit such grammatical and theological heresy! As a Catholic and as a grammarian, I cannot more firmly object to my God being referred to using anything but a masculine pronoun. As it is, my hackles go up enough when pronouns referring to the Godhead are not capitalized.

_________________
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." --Douglas Adams

Image

Commit to the Image

formerly "ghall512"--Thanks for the idea, arkcatholic! :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:51 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78341
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:29 pm 
Offline
Corporate Minion Moderator
Corporate Minion Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:18 pm
Posts: 17922
Location: Just visiting this planet.
Religion: Finally Catholic!
Church Affiliations: Legion of Mary, SVdP
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.

That really chaps my hide. I've studied French, Russian, Spanish, and know a little Latin, Mandarin, and Korean. English is the only language whose speakers seem to have a hangup over the gender of pronouns. What a pack of nonsense.

_________________
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." --Douglas Adams

Image

Commit to the Image

formerly "ghall512"--Thanks for the idea, arkcatholic! :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:58 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75642
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
ForeverFaithful wrote:

To give some moral guidance. They have guidelines on hypnosis


Grammar has nothing to do with morality. At any rate, I sincerely hope the hierarchy of the Church has more important things to do with their time than worrying about a silly ideological fad that is only of interest to a handful of daffy American leftists.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:14 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28993
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.

That really chaps my hide. I've studied French, Russian, Spanish, and know a little Latin, Mandarin, and Korean. English is the only language whose speakers seem to have a hangup over the gender of pronouns. What a pack of nonsense.

Not true anymore.

Look up Latinx (rather than Latino/latina ... Though some propose Latine). Many Spanish teachers have been producing material that is gender fluid. Even one Latin teacher I know (and more trying to accommodate alternative genders in class)


Even French... Iel, ael or ille are used by LGBTQ Francophones. But, lacking a neuter, this ends up being more written than spoken.

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:19 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.


It will make my professional work much easy to just "go along" but is it cooperating with sin? If yes then I can't

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:19 am 
Offline
Corporate Minion Moderator
Corporate Minion Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:18 pm
Posts: 17922
Location: Just visiting this planet.
Religion: Finally Catholic!
Church Affiliations: Legion of Mary, SVdP
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.


It will make my professional work much easy to just "go along" but is it cooperating with sin? If yes then I can't

I don’t see how. I’m a professional writer and having to be “pc” in my work is a royal pain in the backside.

_________________
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." --Douglas Adams

Image

Commit to the Image

formerly "ghall512"--Thanks for the idea, arkcatholic! :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:38 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.


It will make my professional work much easy to just "go along" but is it cooperating with sin? If yes then I can't

I don’t see how. I’m a professional writer and having to be “pc” in my work is a royal pain in the backside.


Canadian legislation and University statues on these points are ambiguous

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:16 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78341
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
It's not formal cooperation, and probably remote material cooperation.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:01 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's not formal cooperation, and probably remote material cooperation.


So there is a probable opinion that simply as a way of keeping peace it is without sin?

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:14 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78341
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
What does "probable opinion" have to do with it? But I can't see how a person would be bound (barring some sort of exceptional circumstance) not to use them if professionally required.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:40 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 39751
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
What does "probable opinion" have to do with it? But I can't see how a person would be bound (barring some sort of exceptional circumstance) not to use them if professionally required.

What if a person is professionally required to refer to a man as "she" or "her"?

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:41 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78341
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
That one, I don't have a good feel for.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:54 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 39751
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That one, I don't have a good feel for.

My own view is that it is probably a species of lying, unless perhaps one views "she" as shorthand for "he who prefers to be called 'she'". But that strikes me as a kind of mental reservation.

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:01 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
What does "probable opinion" have to do with it? But I can't see how a person would be bound (barring some sort of exceptional circumstance) not to use them if professionally required.


By probable opinion, I just mean an opinion that can be followed in good conscience.

To be clear the particular case I mean is someone might request to be referred to as "they" in the third person, because this individual does not wish to be identified as male or female.

Again Canadian law on this matter is ambiguous. The now infamous case of Jordan Peterson who was told that his action by the University of Toronto might be illegal if the legislation he was criticizing passed (it did) was also told by a law professor that his actions could not be tried as hate speech and that he was just fear mongering.

I am not aware of any actual cases involving this issue, and even though the legislation passed a few years ago, I am not aware of any legal action taken against Dr. Peterson.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:04 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Peregrinator wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That one, I don't have a good feel for.

My own view is that it is probably a species of lying, unless perhaps one views "she" as shorthand for "he who prefers to be called 'she'". But that strikes me as a kind of mental reservation.


I have an uncle who was once talking about a transgendered individual who seemed to be making a point of emphasizing with his inflection every time that he was using "her" preferred pronouns.

It seemed like a statement of belief more than anything.

That being said though, if it's a sin then it's a hill to die on. If it's not a sin, I'll avoid it as much as possible, but if I can't I'll simply use the words to avoid sanction.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Non-Standard Pronouns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:46 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28993
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Just call them by first name, no pronouns.

Or use the singular they. While I don't like the current reason for it, singular they is, contrary to prescriptivist wags, perfect English, having been used for as long as there has been print at least. And in conversation even easier.

So

Carol went to the store, and they said it was a mess. (Carol is originally a male name, but whatever)

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 27 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


Jump to: