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 Post subject: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:36 pm 
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On September 19, 1846, we saw a beautiful Lady. We never said that this lady was the Blessed Virgin but we always said that it was a beautiful Lady.

I do not know if it is the Blessed Virgin or another person. As for me, I believe today that it is the Blessed Virgin. Here is what this Lady said to me:

"If my people continue, what I will say to you will arrive earlier, if it changes a little, it will be a little later.

France has corrupted the universe, one day it will be punished. The faith will die out in France: three quarters of France will not practice religion anymore, or almost no more, the other part will practice it without really practicing it. Then, after [that], nations will convert, the faith will be rekindled everywhere. A great country, now Protestant, in the north of Europe, will be converted; by the support of this country all the other nations of the world will be converted.

Before all that arrives, great disorders will arrive, in the Church, and everywhere. Then, after [that], our Holy Father the Pope will be persecuted. His successor will be a pontiff that nobody expects.

Then, after [that], a great peace will come, but it will not last a long time. A monster will come to disturb it.

All that I tell you here will arrive in the other century, at the latest in the year two thousand."


Was there a conversion of a Protestant nation that I am unaware of?

The prima facie reading of the prophecy seems to say that there would be a conversion of a major Protestant nation in northern Europe before the year 2000, did that happen?

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Arguably, the country being referred to is England. No, it is far being from a Catholic country, but right now, there are more practicing Catholics in England than there are practicing Anglicans. And there have been several distant relatives of the royal family who have converted and thus been removed from the line of succession, as well as Tony Blair, a former Prime Minister, and some Anglican bishops and many clergy from the C of E. The Church of England is actually only the third most popular religion in England right now. Catholicism is number 1, and Islam is number 2. To the extent that there is any active Christianity in England at all today, it is mostly Catholic, with the exception of a handful of prominent evangelicals like NT Wright and Alistar McGrath. That's a kind of 'conversion' in a sense.

As far as the predictions about France, I'm sorry but everything in that quote was already true in 1846, hell, it was true in 1789, or. even 1689. France has been a fully secularized country for a very long time.


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Arguably, the country being referred to is England. No, it is far being from a Catholic country, but right now, there are more practicing Catholics in England than there are practicing Anglicans. And there have been several distant relatives of the royal family who have converted and thus been removed from the line of succession, as well as Tony Blair, a former Prime Minister, and some Anglican bishops and many clergy from the C of E. The Church of England is actually only the third most popular religion in England right now. Catholicism is number 1, and Islam is number 2. To the extent that there is any active Christianity in England at all today, it is mostly Catholic, with the exception of a handful of prominent evangelicals like NT Wright and Alistar McGrath. That's a kind of 'conversion' in a sense.

As far as the predictions about France, I'm sorry but everything in that quote was already true in 1846, hell, it was true in 1789, or. even 1689. France has been a fully secularized country for a very long time.


How do you understand the references to the Holy Father?

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:40 pm 
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I don't. I've always been very skeptical of the prophecies of La Salette.


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:29 am 
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Private revelation, even those approved by the Church, are not part of the deposit of faith.

I suggest you focus on the Bible, Councils of the Church and Catechism.

Live the Catholic faith (prayer, sacraments, service) and don't worry about purported revelations/prophecies.

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:59 am 
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Doom wrote:
And there have been several distant relatives of the royal family who have converted and thus been removed from the line of succession, as well as Tony Blair, a former Prime Minister, and some Anglican bishops and many clergy from the C of E.

Blair did not convert before 2000, afaik


Quote:
"To the extent that there is any active Christianity in England at all today, it is mostly Catholic"

The same can be said even about my country.

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
And there have been several distant relatives of the royal family who have converted and thus been removed from the line of succession, as well as Tony Blair, a former Prime Minister, and some Anglican bishops and many clergy from the C of E.

Blair did not convert before 2000, afaik


He didn't convert until he resigned as PM in 2007, he waited until then because under British law he would have been forced to resign as PM if he had done it before. But so what?


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
And there have been several distant relatives of the royal family who have converted and thus been removed from the line of succession, as well as Tony Blair, a former Prime Minister, and some Anglican bishops and many clergy from the C of E.

Blair did not convert before 2000, afaik


He didn't convert until he resigned as PM in 2007, he waited until then because under British law he would have been forced to resign as PM if he had done it before. But so what?

1. Can you cite the law?
2. Hasn't he taken decisions against Church teaching?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:30 pm 
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As to 1, it's complicated.

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
1. Can you cite the law?
2. Hasn't he taken decisions against Church teaching?


It is a law that was passed after the so-called 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688 when Parliament decreed that Catholics, and people who are married to Catholics, cannot be in the line of succession to the monarchy. And the C of E is a state church, and the Prime Minister has the responsibility of appointing Anglican bishops (more technically since all bishops are theoretically appointed by the sovereign, the prime minister is responsible for recommending appointments to the sovereign, but since these recommendations are almost always followed, it could be said that prime minister appoints the bishops), I don't see how any Catholic, could, in good conscience, be responsible for appointing Protestant bishops. This state of affair is going to exist until the C of E is officially disestablished.


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:17 am 
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Technically and legally, he could recuse himself from that particular decision (recommending appointments of the archbishop). Strictly, the Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 only says that a Catholic may not advise the sovereign on such matters (and, I believe, that a Catholic cannot be the sovereign nor married to one, though perhaps that's a different law). The problem isn't that there is a law excluding a Catholic from being PM as such. Rather, it's a problem of implication, and where there are implications, there are always work-arounds. That being said, it probably was rather politically expedient for Blair to withhold his conversion until after he left office, whatever other options might have been technically possible, and whether or not such an approach was morally or religiously advisable. To me, it's an interesting question that if a Catholic may not advise the Queen on the appointment of the Archbishop (and, as we all understand, in practice, the PM essentially appoints the AB), what do you do with a closet Catholic like Blair? Could his appointments be contested after the fact if an argument could be made that while Blair (or someone in his position) may not have violated the letter of the law that he violated its spirit? How far does the idea of Catholic influence go? What if you have a PM that's rather religiously neutral but has a very religiously active and devote Catholic spouse? Ah, implications, implications . . . for all its problems, I do like the simple (simplistic?) notion of separation of church and state.

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
1. Can you cite the law?
2. Hasn't he taken decisions against Church teaching?


It is a law that was passed after the so-called 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688 when Parliament decreed that Catholics, and people who are married to Catholics, cannot be in the line of succession to the monarchy. And the C of E is a state church, and the Prime Minister has the responsibility of appointing Anglican bishops (more technically since all bishops are theoretically appointed by the sovereign, the prime minister is responsible for recommending appointments to the sovereign, but since these recommendations are almost always followed, it could be said that prime minister appoints the bishops), I don't see how any Catholic, could, in good conscience, be responsible for appointing Protestant bishops. This state of affair is going to exist until the C of E is officially disestablished.


That will never happen as long as those who adhere to Antidisestablishmentarianism have a say.


Never in a million years did I think I would have a reason to actually use that word. Thank you for the opportunity. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Zeno wrote:

That will never happen as long as those who adhere to Antidisestablishmentarianism have a say.


Never in a million years did I think I would have a reason to actually use that word. Thank you for the opportunity. :mrgreen:



It is not a real word, it's a word that was made up as a joke to try to create as long a word as possible. A person who opposes disestablishing the Church of England, or any other stare church, would simply be an 'establishmentarian.'


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:08 pm 
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theJack wrote:
Technically and legally, he could recuse himself from that particular decision (recommending appointments of the archbishop). Strictly, the Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829 only says that a Catholic may not advise the sovereign on such matters (and, I believe, that a Catholic cannot be the sovereign nor married to one, though perhaps that's a different law). The problem isn't that there is a law excluding a Catholic from being PM as such. Rather, it's a problem of implication, and where there are implications, there are always workarounds. That being said, it probably was rather politically expedient for Blair to withhold his conversion until after he left office, whatever other options might have been technically possible, and whether or not such an approach was morally or religiously advisable. To me, it's an interesting question that if a Catholic may not advise the Queen on the appointment of the Archbishop (and, as we all understand, in practice, the PM essentially appoints the AB), what do you do with a closet Catholic like Blair? Could his appointments be contested after the fact if an argument could be made that while Blair (or someone in his position) may not have violated the letter of the law that he violated its spirit? How far does the idea of Catholic influence go? What if you have a PM that's rather religiously neutral but has a very religiously active and devout Catholic spouse? Ah, implications, implications . . . for all its problems, I do like the simple (simplistic?) notion of separation of church and state.


Yes, there would have to be some kind of workaround, and one of the main benefits of a parliamentary democracy with no written constitution like the one that exists in the UK is that it always possible to find a workaround, assuming, of course, that the Parliament is rather insistent on a particular person being PM and willing to bend the rules to make it happen. But, assuming that Parliament was not willing, and it probably wouldn't have been in the case of Tony Blair.....well, let's just say it would all be much easier if there were no Catholic PM at all...

Another reason, I think, that Blair waited until after he resigned is that he didn't want his conversation to be seen as political, which it almost certainly would have been if he had done it in office.


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Zeno wrote:

That will never happen as long as those who adhere to Antidisestablishmentarianism have a say.


Never in a million years did I think I would have a reason to actually use that word. Thank you for the opportunity. :mrgreen:



It is not a real word, it's a word that was made up as a joke to try to create as long a word as possible. A person who opposes disestablishing the Church of England, or any other stare church, would simply be an 'establishmentarian.'


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/antid ... ntarianism


antidisestablishmentarianism
[an-tee-dis-uh-stab-lish-muh n-tair-ee-uh-niz-uh m, an-tahy-]
noun
opposition to the withdrawal of state support or recognition from an established church, especially the Anglican Church in 19th-century England.


Origin of antidisestablishmentarianism
anti- + disestablishment + -arian + -ism
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2018

Word Origin and History for antidisestablishmentarianism
n.
"opposition to disestablishment of the Church of England," 1838, said by Weekley to be first recorded in Gladstone's "Church and State," from dis- + establishment in the sense of "the ecclesiastical system established by law; the Church of England" (1731). Hence, establishmentarianism "the principle of a state church," and disestablish (1590s) "to deprive (a church) of especial state patronage and support" (first used specifically of Christian churches in 1806), which are married in this word. Rarely used at all now except in examples of the longest words, amongst which it has been counted at least since 1901.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:40 pm 
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After more than a century of searching, the researchers at the Oxford English Dictionary have only been able to find a total of 3 references since 1800 in which the word 'antidisestablishmentarianism' was used as a real word, and not simply used it as a kind of joke word or cited it as an example of a really long word. The quotation by Gladstone is one of the 3. This is why the word is missing from most dictionaries, including Merriam Webster and the Cambridge English dictionary. It is included in the Oxford English Dictionary. but then, that particular dictionary took 73 years to produce, fills 20 volumes and was intentionally designed to be the most comprehensive dictionary, of any language, ever written, so yes it includes words most dictionaries don't including swear words, archaic words, and nonsense words, like 'Supercalifragilisticexpidalidocious'


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:08 am 
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Doom wrote:
After more than a century of searching, the researchers at the Oxford English Dictionary have only been able to find a total of 3 references since 1800 in which the word 'antidisestablishmentarianism' was used as a real word, and not simply used it as a kind of joke word or cited it as an example of a really long word. The quotation by Gladstone is one of the 3. This is why the word is missing from most dictionaries, including Merriam Webster and the Cambridge English dictionary. It is included in the Oxford English Dictionary. but then, that particular dictionary took 73 years to produce, fills 20 volumes and was intentionally designed to be the most comprehensive dictionary, of any language, ever written, so yes it includes words most dictionaries don't including swear words, archaic words, and nonsense words, like 'Supercalifragilisticexpidalidocious'


I think I once managed to work it into a post, somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:42 am 
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I hear Ice-T used it once in a song, but, again, mostly as a joke, since rap is based on the idea of rhyme, and since it is impossible to find a rhyme for 'antidisestablishmentarianism'...


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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:19 am 
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Doom wrote:
I hear Ice-T used it once in a song, but, again, mostly as a joke, since rap is based on the idea of rhyme, and since it is impossible to find a rhyme for 'antidisestablishmentarianism'...


Unitarianism

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Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
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 Post subject: Re: Did the prophecies of LaSalette come true?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:03 pm 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Doom wrote:
I hear Ice-T used it once in a song, but, again, mostly as a joke, since rap is based on the idea of rhyme, and since it is impossible to find a rhyme for 'antidisestablishmentarianism'...


Unitarianism


A swing and a miss.

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