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 Post subject: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Why is it necessary to be baptised? There are Christians who say all that matters is your relationship with Jesus or whether you are a good person. If you do good and you love Jesus, what difference does it make if you are baptised or not, especially if you were baptised as a baby when it wasn't even your own choice? A baby born of Catholic parents is likely to be baptised, a baby born of non-Catholic parents is unlikely to be baptised, so is it all just a matter of luck? Should everyone born not have an equal chance with God?


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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:04 pm 
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From The Compendium of Catechism of the Catholic Church:

258. Why does the Church baptize infants?

The Church baptizes infants because they are born with original sin. They need to be freed from the power of the Evil One and brought into that realm of freedom which belongs to the children of God.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:14 pm 
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If you are going to go through Protestant arguments, which I discourage, then you should consider my favorite Bible verse. It is the one right after theirs. It almost always disproves their argument. Sometimes you have to look at the one before or the rest of the chapter. Once I had a Protestant on the internet arguing against baptism quote a verse which said "what doth it profit a man to be baptized?" The next verse was "much every way". ::):

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:17 pm 
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The simplest reason we baptize is because Jesus told us to. We can't go to Jesus and insist on having a relationship on our own terms. We have to have that relationship the way He asks us, and He asks us to be baptized.

I'm not sure how to quantify how much of a "chance at God" someone has, but God truly desires the salvation of all and makes it possible for everyone to achieve salvation.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:18 pm 
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The Bible says that you must be baptized to go to heaven. It further has, oh, maybe 116 other things it says you have to do to be saved. Of those 117 there are some who say you only need 1, believe in Jesus, to be saved. What of the other 116? Is the Bible wrong? Really, really, wrong? That's a whole lot of wrong. The Catholic Church believes in all 117. I guess you could say we're "full gospel".

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:18 pm 
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And of course St. Paul teaches in Romans 6 (backed up by Colossians 2) that baptism is effective and therefore necessary for salvation.

We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

The apostles Peter and John confirm St. Paul’s teaching. In Acts 2, when St. Peter is preaching at Pentecost, his hearers ask what they must do to be saved, and he replies, "Repent and be baptized." In 1 Peter 3, Noah’s ark is referred to as a type of baptism, and Peter writes, "In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:20-21).

The most famous New Testament evidence for the necessity of baptism is in John’s Gospel. When Nicodemus comes to visit Jesus by night, Jesus says that a person cannot enter the kingdom of God without being born again. Nicodemus asks how a man might enter again into his mother’s womb and Jesus corrects him, saying, "No one can enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:3-5). From the earliest days of the Church this passage has been understood to refer to baptism, and this interpretation is virtually unanimous down through history.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Bombadil wrote:
The Bible says that you must be baptized to go to heaven. It further has, oh, maybe 116 other things it says you have to do to be saved. Of those 117 there are some who say you only need 1, believe in Jesus, to be saved. What of the other 116? Is the Bible wrong? Really, really, wrong? That's a whole lot of wrong. The Catholic Church believes in all 117. I guess you could say we're "full gospel".


I hope you're being hyperbolic. Do you really believe that there are 117 things required of salvation?

Yes we both no faith alone is not enough.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:03 am 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
The Bible says that you must be baptized to go to heaven. It further has, oh, maybe 116 other things it says you have to do to be saved. Of those 117 there are some who say you only need 1, believe in Jesus, to be saved. What of the other 116? Is the Bible wrong? Really, really, wrong? That's a whole lot of wrong. The Catholic Church believes in all 117. I guess you could say we're "full gospel".


I hope you're being hyperbolic. Do you really believe that there are 117 things required of salvation?

Yes we both no faith alone is not enough.

I was thinking about it last night, maybe the number is around 15-20. More than 10.

Do I believe you have to do each of those things to be saved? No, of course not. Not in the way it seems that you are asking. I guess we would have to get a list to examine them, but most are not really things you do like baptism. Many are more like qualities or virtues, and in a way you could say they are essential, but not strictly required, however, none of them can be rejected.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:56 pm 
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I have an eight-month old daughter, I'm considering getting her baptised, her father is not in favour though, I'm wondering if it's worth a fight to get her baptised. I've been baptised, though it wasn't my choice. I'm wondering if maybe it would be better to let my daughter make up her own mind when she's old enough to think about it and decide for herself. I'm not sure what age that might be, 12 and onwards maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Are you married to him?

Baptism is always the right choice, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:50 am 
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Yes, it is worth a fight, if it comes to that. I don't mean that you should be disrespectful to your husband, of course, but given what you've read in this thread, you can see that the Church is very clear about the necessity of baptism. Please don't withhold that from your child.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:29 am 
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It is very good for parents faithful to the teachings of Our Lord to baptize their children in the faith. As they grow up
they can learn, in age appropriate ways, how to follow Our Lord Jesus Christ.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:58 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
I have an eight-month old daughter, I'm considering getting her baptised, her father is not in favour though, I'm wondering if it's worth a fight to get her baptised. I've been baptised, though it wasn't my choice. I'm wondering if maybe it would be better to let my daughter make up her own mind when she's old enough to think about it and decide for herself. I'm not sure what age that might be, 12 and onwards maybe?


i was 9 when i answered the "altar call" in my baptist church... since baptists offer a valid baptism, i could not be baptized again once i converted to the Church of our Lord in 1997, and was received in full communion in april of 1998

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Why is it necessary to be baptised? There are Christians who say all that matters is your relationship with Jesus or whether you are a good person.
The second thing flies in the face of every thing in the Bible, and is quite frankly pure Pelagianism.

But let's assume that the first part is correct, that all you need is a 'relationship with Jesus.' What we need to ask then, is this: how do we get into this relationship? Well, if you actually read Scripture, and see what Christians have taught since the dawn of the Church, you see that you get into this relationship through baptism.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Would it be possible to have my daughter baptised without telling her father? He's a good man but doesn't like religion.

We're not married, can't afford it.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Just as a clarification: there's a huge difference between not being able to afford to get married (which almost certainly does not apply to you) and not being able to afford much of a standard contemporary wedding (which very well might). Since it's the sacrament of matrimony that matters, and not the trappings and the party, I'd say that if your bar to marriage is money, you basically don't have a bar to marriage: go get married in the way you can actually afford.

As far as having the baptism without mentioning it to the baby's father, my reaction is not to do that, but I'd say to go talk to your priest asap. You're not the first person to come to him with questions like this! :)

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:20 am 
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Do I need to be a practicing Catholic (which I'm not, not yet anyway) to have my daughter baptised?


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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:45 am 
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I find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly 'not afford' to get married. A marriage license costs what, $50 bucks at most, if even that? A trip down to the justice of the peace costs what, another $50 at most, again, if even that? You don't even need to plan it far in advance and decide 'let's go down to the justice of the peace and get married' and you can get it done by the end of the day. And if the justice of the peace is too expensive, there are probably other options. My parents were married by the Salvation Army chaplain, it cost nothing. If you can't afford that, try to save $5-$10 from every paycheck until you have enough.


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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:08 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Do I need to be a practicing Catholic (which I'm not, not yet anyway) to have my daughter baptised?

I would think so, since you'll be promising to raise the baby up in the Church.

We've got people around here way better at answering these kinds of practical questions than I am. Where are you guys? :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: I want to understand baptism
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Hi Denise,

I commend you for asking questions!

We are learning about your circumstances little by little, and so some of the questions could not be answered fully.

Perhaps if you found where there is a Catholic Church near you and make an appointment to talk to a priest, explaining your situation, he can be of help.

If you are interested in Catholicism you can ask him when the RCIA program begins. That is a process of learning what the Church teaches and then you decide....there is no pressure.

I will keep you in my prayers, Denise, on your spiritual journey with the Lord.

God bless your baby girl!

Peace,

Dorothy


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