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 Post subject: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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What is the Church's teaching on usury, and how do we reconcile it with the common (and I assume allowed) use of credit cards and banks among Catholics?

I'm assuming it's material cooperation?


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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Usury is a grave evil.

I don't know how to reconcile the Church's teaching with current financial standards, but I will say that even in the clearer old days, the Church didn't say it is wrong to borrow money at interest, only to lend money at interest.

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Yeah, I gotta admit, I know next to nothing about economics and finance and a lot of it goes way over my head (not to mention it's incredibly anxiety provoking for me).

I just wanna be sure that I'm not sinning by having a credit card or bank account (checking and savings). I'm pretty certain that I'm not. Given that there really is no choice unless you want to function in the world (and I'm sure there are a lot of other complex moral distinctions as well).


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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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You're not sinning by having a credit card (there, you're being charged the interest). The case of checkings and savings accounts are substantially less clear to me, but I'd go so far as to say that we don't sin by having them, though we should advocate for the abolition of the use of interest in banking services.

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 pm 
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ThomisticCajunAggie wrote:
You're not sinning by having a credit card (there, you're being charged the interest). The case of checkings and savings accounts are substantially less clear to me, but I'd go so far as to say that we don't sin by having them, though we should advocate for the abolition of the use of interest in banking services.



How would the banks survive?

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Sabbath wrote:
ThomisticCajunAggie wrote:
You're not sinning by having a credit card (there, you're being charged the interest). The case of checkings and savings accounts are substantially less clear to me, but I'd go so far as to say that we don't sin by having them, though we should advocate for the abolition of the use of interest in banking services.



How would the banks survive?


Interest on money is only needed because of the use of fiat currency.

For hundreds of years folks didn’t get annual raises. Why? There was basically no inflation - it didn’t exist.

I’m not a “trade in gold” kind of guy, but I do believe that putting all world currencies back on the gold standard would help greatly slow inflation and start the elimination of interest.

Greed keeps is from doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 pm 
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The value of gold can be manipulated.

One thing that happened was the emperor would set the exchange rate. He paid in silver and collected his taxes in gold. This year 10 ounces of silver was worth an ounce of gold, next year it will be 11, then 12, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:57 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Bombadil wrote:
The value of gold can be manipulated.

Yes, but it is less subject to manipulation than the value of fiat currency.

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:58 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Sabbath wrote:
How would the banks survive?

One would pay a small fee for the maintenance of his accounts.

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:49 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Peregrinator wrote:
Sabbath wrote:
How would the banks survive?

One would pay a small fee for the maintenance of his accounts.


:iws

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 Post subject: Re: Usury, Credit Cards, and Banks
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:22 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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This would also mean the end of fractional-reserve banking.

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