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 Post subject: Do they misrepresent justification on purpose?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 1591
Location: Wisconsin
Religion: Roman Catholic
I was reading through the WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran) webpage and came across this:
"The Lutheran approach is that faith = salvation and that salvation brings about good works. The Roman Catholic view is that faith + good works = salvation. In both cases you have faith, good works, and salvation.... so why is the difference so important?"

It then goes on with alittle history of Martin Luther and the idea that the Catholic view is like trying to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.

"The church of Luther's day taught that salvation was not entirely God's gift to the people."

You'd think the WELS, if anybody, would exercise a bit more reflection before throwing out this caricature of the Catholic justification.

For who we are and what we'll be/ I'll sing your praise eternally/ the miles we've shared I'd trade but few/ they're the ones that kept me away from you.

 Post subject: Re: Do they misrepresent justification on purpose?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:11 am 
King of Cool
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Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76367
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
WELS is pretty much the hardcore fundamentalist Lutherans, the other major Lutheran denominations, such as LCMS and ELCA, tend to be more reasonable. Of course, ELCA Lutherans tend to consider even the LCMS to be 'fundamentalist' because LCMS practices closed communion, won't participate in worship with other denominations (even though they don't deny the label of 'Christian' to those other denominations) and won't ordain women. Nevertheless, the LCMS is in favor of ecumenism and ecumenical dialogue in ways that WELS isn't.

And even though the LCMS still officially teaches that the papacy is the antichrist (not the Pope as a person, but rather the office, as if that is a coherent position, how could the antichrist be an office?) they still, when criticizing Catholicism, tend to try to base its critique on official Catholic sources rather than just making it up. I once told someone I know who was an LCMS Lutheran that I couldn't eat meat since it was a Friday during Lent and I joked 'you probably think that's stupid', but she responded 'no, no, no I think it is important to follow your conscience, and if your conscience tells you that you can't eat on Friday then for you to do so would indeed be a sin.' And I thought that was a reasonable thing to say. There are many evangelicals who would indeed laugh at me and tell me I was being stupid and lecture me about 'the freedom of the gospel'.


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