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 Post subject: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now witches
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:56 am 
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There's a video that started making the rounds saying how beer brewing was a craft almost exclusively practiced by women until the 15th century when men finally wrested control of beer brewing from women. Then, to turn public sentiment against these alewives, these men started portraying alewives as witches.
The video mentions that this was mainly because of the Spanish Inquisition.

These claims from what I've been able to google out seem to come from a book by a Helen Ellerbe called "The Dark Side of Christianity".

The one glaring issue was the dating of the 15th century being a point where men finally pulled control of brewing away from women. I've since become acquainted with the fact that women did in fact do much brewing of beer.... but, I had been aware of the fact that at least in the 11th century Trappist monks had a pretty elaborate process of brewing beer.

More of concern though is the claims about the Church in the Spanish Inquisition painting alewives as witches. Again, if it comes from Ellerbe's book it might take a knock against her erudition on the time; because I also read a blurb from that same book which claims Christians were responsible to the burning down of the library at Alexandria because.... I dunno "Books bad!!!". I had read quite a bit from more scholarly sources smashing that claim already. So it made me wonder if her Church/Inquistion/Alewives/Witches claim was just as poorly reasoned out.

But, that's not to say that some clerics may have done this. Is anyone knowledgeable of these claims?

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:28 am 
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This makes about as much sense: https://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g nar

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:52 am 
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Anything that mixes the Spanish Inquisition and witches is based on a complete fabrication by radical feminists.

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:10 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Anything that mixes the Spanish Inquisition and witches is based on a complete fabrication by radical feminists.

Oh, I so want to write a pithy, rhyming line about the people who wrote this drivel about witches, but in the interests of keeping things clean, I won't. :salut:

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Oh, I so want to write a pithy, rhyming line about the people who wrote this drivel about witches, but in the interests of keeping things clean, I won't. :salut:

That might be a challenge. I mean, I can't think of a single word that rhymes with witches and refers to feminists. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Riverboat wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Oh, I so want to write a pithy, rhyming line about the people who wrote this drivel about witches, but in the interests of keeping things clean, I won't. :salut:

That might be a challenge. I mean, I can't think of a single word that rhymes with witches and refers to feminists. ;)

::):

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:08 pm 
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I would think that it was a normal household task to make sure the family had something to drink that would not kill them. Seems the simplest explanation as to why women brewed beer back then ...

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:32 pm 
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And, considering what all was considered "women's work" back then, how can one blame the average housewife's reaction when all of a sudden the men decided they needed to be the ones in charge of brewing beer?

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Extremely few cases of witchcraft were handled by the Inquisition. For one, is was an almost impossible charge to prove without "witnesses" committing the serious crime of giving false testimony. Secondly, the Inquisition in all countries tried and executed a very small number of people over many centuries; for example, the most vociferous inquisition, the Spanish, only executed about 4,000 over the course of 356 years. Even of those accused, questioned, or tried, most were not tortured or harmed in any way. Most were released for lack of evidence. The Inquisition was concerned almost entirely with heresy and not much else. It's hard for most to fathom in today's world but during the time of the Inquisition, heresy was far more serious a crime than murder. If you murdered someone you only killed their body. If you led people astray with heresy, you were complicit in the eternal damnation of their souls. My historic read of it anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Riverboat wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Oh, I so want to write a pithy, rhyming line about the people who wrote this drivel about witches, but in the interests of keeping things clean, I won't. :salut:

That might be a challenge. I mean, I can't think of a single word that rhymes with witches and refers to feminists. ;)


Legit laugh out loud (while at work).

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:57 pm 
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For one, it was an almost impossible charge to prove without "witnesses" committing the serious crime of giving false testimony.
And, for all the bad rap it gets, the Inquisition was serious about having actual evidence, and for that matter, it was skeptical of testimony when there was an obvious ax to be ground. An innocent person accused of witchery was much safer in front of the Inquisition than in front of any other court.

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Thanks for the info, DesertFalcon.

I remember reading in Vox Day's The Irrational Atheist something along the lines that more people died yearly riding Schwinn bicycles than in the Spanish Inquisition.

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:04 pm 
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p.falk wrote:
But, that's not to say that some clerics may have done this. Is anyone knowledgeable of these claims?


If you want to understand the witch hunts, watch the movie 'Mean Girls.'

Contrary to feminist myth, there is absolutely no 'sisterhood' among women. Women tend to be caught up in bitter rivalries with other women. Let's see how close the 'sisterhood of all women' is the moment one woman tries to make a move on another woman's man. It may be an exaggeration to say that 'all women hate each other', but it is nevertheless true that there are a lot of petty feuds and jealousies among women. The movie 'Mean Girls' is just flat out DEAD ON ACCURATE about the way that teenage girls, and even adult women can sometimes act.

The overwhelming majority of the accusations of 'witchcraft' that were made towards women, were made by other women, and the reason for the accusation tended to be reasons of petty jealousy. Generally speaking, if two women were fighting over a man, one would report the other as guilty of 'witchcraft' as a way to get rid of her rival.

Many of the accusations of witchcraft resulted from stillbirths or miscarriages. Basically, one woman would suffer a miscarriage or a still birth, or the sudden death of an infant (consider that for most of human history, the infant mortality rate was over 50%, sometimes over 80%, there tended to be a lot of infant deaths) and the woman who suffered this would blame one of her female rivals and say that she caused the miscarriage or stillbirth through witchcraft. They might say that the other caused by miscarriage by giving her the evil eye, or something equally idiotic.

This kind of idiotic nonsense is the source of more than 90% of the known accusations of 'witchcraft.'

The result of these accusation was often violence, where a mob would suddenly attack and murder one accused of witchcraft. The arguments and 'evidence' presented at the mob show 'trials' was usually absurd. The 'witch trial' scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail is sadly not too far from the truth.

This is why the Church felt the need to get involved: to put an end to baseless accusations, and put a stop to the mob violence and provide a reasonably fair and objective due process to protect those accused of witchcraft. Those who accused of witchcraft and tried by the Church were almost always acquitted, those who were found guilty were usually sentenced to....go to confession and repent of her sin.

The involvement of the Church actually put an end to the fanaticism and violence.

The idea that accusing women of witchcraft had anything to do with 'men oppressing women' is just so much BS.


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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
Extremely few cases of witchcraft were handled by the Inquisition. For one, is was an almost impossible charge to prove without "witnesses" committing the serious crime of giving false testimony. Secondly, the Inquisition in all countries tried and executed a very small number of people over many centuries; for example, the most vociferous inquisition, the Spanish, only executed about 4,000 over the course of 356 years. Even of those accused, questioned, or tried, most were not tortured or harmed in any way. Most were released for lack of evidence. The Inquisition was concerned almost entirely with heresy and not much else. It's hard for most to fathom in today's world but during the time of the Inquisition, heresy was far more serious a crime than murder. If you murdered someone you only killed their body. If you led people astray with heresy, you were complicit in the eternal damnation of their souls. My historic read of it anyway...



Kamen/SPANISH INQUISITION.

Or for mind-numbing detail on a particular aspect of it, Netanyahu/ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN 15th CENTURY SPAIN.

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:57 pm 
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p.falk wrote:
Thanks for the info, DesertFalcon.

I remember reading in Vox Day's The Irrational Atheist something along the lines that more people died yearly riding Schwinn bicycles than in the Spanish Inquisition.



He implies around 2500, which comports with Kamen. I can't find my copy of Day, so I googled. He says children's bicycles, but doesn't give an exact number.

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Doom wrote:
The 'witch trial' scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail is sadly not too far from the truth.


I don't understand. What would be sad about that. Surely that was a fair cop. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:26 pm 
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She turned me into a newt!

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:44 pm 
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She turned me into a newt!


So I see.

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:09 pm 
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I got better :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Catholic Church - Spanish Inquisition - Alewives now wit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Much to the chagrin of Gussie Fink-Nottle no doubt. :(

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