Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 26 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:34 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 7171
Location: United States
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
I've heard it said that next to the Holy Mass, the rosary is the most powerful prayer. I have the 4 Volume set of the Divine Office, and was wondering where this ranks. Is the Divine Office considered liturgy while the rosary is not?

_________________
"Indeed the true friends of the people are neither the revolutionaries nor innovators, they are the traditionalist." - Pope Pius X

Adoremus in Aeternum

Consecrated to Mary, March 25, 2015.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:53 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:47 am
Posts: 6377
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
The Liturgy of the Hours is the daily prayer of the Church, also known as the Divine Office.

The Holy Rosary is an excellent private prayer devotion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:01 pm 
Offline
The Exterminator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 26733
Location: The Old Forest
Religion: Númenórean Catholic
Matthew Michael wrote:
I've heard it said that next to the Holy Mass, the rosary is the most powerful prayer. I have the 4 Volume set of the Divine Office, and was wondering where this ranks. Is the Divine Office considered liturgy while the rosary is not?

The Divine Office is what they call the public prayer of the Church. It includes mass. So I think it is as the alternate title the liturgy of the hours implies, a sort of liturgy. As the public prayer of the Church I would say that it outranks the rosary.

The main thing is not which is more "powerful," it is which one will you do? For most people the LOTH is too much, too confusing, etc. The rosary generally fits well with everyone. It is the most highly indulgenced prayer in the Church and should not be cast aside for other devotions lightly, except perhaps the LOTH.

As I said, the primary factor is that you find time for prayer and do it consistently. What exactly you choose as your personal devotions are up to you. I always recommend what I have found to work for most people. Daily rosary, morning and evening prayers. That isn't too burdensome and most can handle it. If you want to add on, great! Especially if you add a daily mass here and there.

_________________
This is absurd.

- Justice Scalia, dissent, King v. Burwell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:13 pm 
Offline
King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 74187
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
I don't think there is any point or value in trying to rank prayers or devotions in order of how powerful they are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:18 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 7171
Location: United States
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Doom, thank you for the reply, I'm not ranking them as if this were a contest. Our personal intentions can be incorporated into the rosary (and the Holy Mass). As far as I know, they cannot be incorporated in to the Divine Office. This was more so my question.

Thank you everyone for the input.

_________________
"Indeed the true friends of the people are neither the revolutionaries nor innovators, they are the traditionalist." - Pope Pius X

Adoremus in Aeternum

Consecrated to Mary, March 25, 2015.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:22 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76205
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Matthew Michael wrote:
As far as I know, they cannot be incorporated into the Divine Office.

Actually they can, as they can with pretty much any prayer. You can even add your own petitions to the ones already there:
GILH wrote:
188. It is permissible, however, to include particular intentions at both morning prayer and evening prayer.
Note that, if you do this at evening prayer, you should include your own before the last one, as the last petition of evening prayer should always be for the dead.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:30 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 7171
Location: United States
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Oh interesting. I thought the intentions of the day (and whatever follows) had to be read verbatim in order to be considered the prayer of the Church. Then again, I very rarely do the entirely day as scripted anyways. I choose what I'd like to pray out of it throughout the day.

Thank you.

_________________
"Indeed the true friends of the people are neither the revolutionaries nor innovators, they are the traditionalist." - Pope Pius X

Adoremus in Aeternum

Consecrated to Mary, March 25, 2015.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:44 pm 
Offline
King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 74187
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Matthew Michael wrote:
Doom, thank you for the reply, I'm not ranking them as if this were a contest. Our personal intentions can be incorporated into the rosary (and the Holy Mass). As far as I know, they cannot be incorporated in to the Divine Office. This was more so my question.

Thank you everyone for the input.


Except that is exactly the way you worded your question, the Mass is the greatest followed by the Rosary, so where does the LOTH rank? That is your wording, not mine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:49 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28897
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
As Bombadil pointed out, the Divine Office includes the Mass. This is clearer with the old directive rubric that had Mass start immediately after Terce on feasts, sext on lower days, and None on penitential days. And in a pontifical Mass, the ritual presumes the choral office first (though again that could and was often omitted)

In many ways, qua liturgy, the Divine Office is in principle more important than the Mass, though in practice this is rarely true outside of a monastery, with the fall of the parochial office. We can blame the liturgical wreckovators misapplying the intent of the Council for cementing the creeping "privatization" of the Office, as something a priest reads quietly to himself as a private duty. They mistook simpler for more ancient, and hence gutted the office of most of the ornaments that made sense in a parish (leaving only a little leave way with Lauds and Vespers). They let the office be printed in a form suitable for private use, rather than choral or parochial. They modelled it off the curial use instead. And they culled many matins of stories and saints popular among the people.



Though Clement VIII, thankfully, restore several of these despised feasts, Urban VIII further wrecked it messing with the hymns! The French and German, and lastly Italian anti-Catholic/clerical governments meddled and wrecked it more. Heck, the neo-Gallican rationalist liturgies of France weren't fully killed until Gueranger. Sadly the intent of the initial liturgical movement to restore the parochial office made little progress, and it is rarer now than 100 years ago.





Be honest- When I said Council, you were not thinking of Trent at first.

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:51 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28897
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Anyhow, in and of itself, the prayer of the Church is greater than any private prayer. However that does not mean it is always, here and now, done with greater charity and merit, nor does it always mean it is more conducive to this particular person's sanctification. What it does mean is that, quasi ex opere operato, it has merit before God apart from the merit of this individual praying, because the Church is behind it.

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:05 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 7171
Location: United States
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Thank you for that PED. I apologize if my wording was confusing. PED's use of the phrase "conducive to this particular person's sanctification" is more so what I was trying to differentiate.

But in regards to privatizing the LOTH, I did have a priest tell me not to pray all that it asks for because it would be overwhelming to the laity.

_________________
"Indeed the true friends of the people are neither the revolutionaries nor innovators, they are the traditionalist." - Pope Pius X

Adoremus in Aeternum

Consecrated to Mary, March 25, 2015.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:11 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76205
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Generally new seminarians are told only to pray a couple of the hours and build up the whole thing. Unfortunately no one got around to telling me that until I'd already been praying the whole thing long enough to be used to it.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:57 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:16 am
Posts: 7171
Location: United States
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
I can see that. What if you miss one of the prayers, Father?

_________________
"Indeed the true friends of the people are neither the revolutionaries nor innovators, they are the traditionalist." - Pope Pius X

Adoremus in Aeternum

Consecrated to Mary, March 25, 2015.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:03 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76205
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I am obliged by a promise to say the whole thing.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:08 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28897
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
I am sure if Father misses any, he thoroughly whips himself! Or more likely, either confesses the omission if at fault, or if not doesn't stress out too much by it.

The hours are somewhat flexible, especially in the current LOTH. If you normally do the Office of the Readings at 3 and forgot, I suppose you could just do it at 8 pm when you remember. I know in the old office, one could anticipate matins and even lauds the evening before, if they foresaw difficulty doing it in the morning. And Vespers was sometimes anticipated earlier in the day (and normally was during Lent)

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:19 am 
Offline
Eminent
Eminent
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:59 am
Posts: 15581
Today is the Day of Portugal, and the feast of the Guardian Angel of Portugal.

So I am praying the Liturgy of the Hours in Portuguese.

Of course, the Guardian Angel of Portugal appeared to three little shepherds in 1916.

:pray: :pray: :pray:

Pray, pray very much!

Rezai, rezai muito!

_________________
TRÁI TIM MẸ SẼ THẮNG.

Vietnamese - Mother's Heart Will Conquer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:22 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76205
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
I am sure if Father misses any, he thoroughly whips himself! Or more likely, either confesses the omission if at fault, or if not doesn't stress out too much by it.

And a canon law trained friend of mine tells me that if you pray the wrong day by mistake (it's easy to overlook Trinity Sunday, for example), "the Office substitutes for the Office" and you don't have to go back and repray the right day.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:47 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 39312
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
When does the Office oblige nowadays? In the old order one was obliged to pray the Office once he was ordained to the subdiaconate. Is it currently when one is ordained to the diaconate?

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:35 am 
Offline
Highness
Highness
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 7432
Location: India
Religion: Syro Malabar Christian
Yes, afaik.

_________________
Prayers,
Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Mass and the Rosary
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:40 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76205
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Peregrinator wrote:
When does the Office oblige nowadays? In the old order one was obliged to pray the Office once he was ordained to the subdiaconate. Is it currently when one is ordained to the diaconate?

That promise is made during the ordination to the diaconate. Our permanent deacons are obliged only to Morning and Evening Prayer; I don't know how widespread that is.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 26 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to:  
cron