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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:00 pm 
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milby, take a look at what is under the heading in the top left of this page... "crossing the tiber" is the conversion story of our host, steve ray... pick up a copy...you won't be disappointed...he was also a baptist... here's a synopsis

http://www.catholic-convert.com/wp-cont ... Story2.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:23 am 
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I have never even been to a Catholic service before. The Catholic Church here in my town has Mass every morning at 7:15 AM. I am thinking about going but am a little worried because I will not know what to do. Should I just slip in and sit in the back and observe? I don't even know how many go that early every day. What should I expect if I go. Do I just follow along with what everyone else does?

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:28 am 
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Just sit in the back and observe...no one will pay any attention to you. You don't have to 'do' anything. Don't receive Communion.


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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:06 am 
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i would doubt a 7:15 AM daily Mass would be overly crowded...i have never been to our once a week 6:30 AM Mass, but our daily 9 AM Mass usually has 80-100 people ... the easiest thing to do is remember the adage, when in rome, do as the romans do...stand when they stand, kneel when they kneel...if there is a missal, you can follow the readings ... and even some of the responses ... you already know the Lord's prayer... that will be said after the consecration but before people receive Holy Communion...as sv said, you should not receive

also be aware, unless the daily Mass you choose is a Solemnity, you are not experiencing the full liturgy... for example, there will be only one reading and a gospel reading instead of 2 readings and a gospel reading... the gloria will not be said/sung, nor will the nicene creed be recited

here's a link that contains the order of the Mass (what you see would be a sunday Mass, not a daily Mass)

http://www.universalis.com/static/mass/orderofmass.htm

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Well I snuck into my first Mass this morning at the Catholic Church. I was surprised that it was in a small room and not the sanctuary. I was also surprised that there was only 12 people including me there. Since that is the only Catholic Church in town I thought there would be more people there.

I didn't get any great spiritual vibes like I was "home" or anything, but I did like the reverence of it all. I am planning on going again tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:53 pm 
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milby wrote:
Well I snuck into my first Mass this morning at the Catholic Church. I was surprised that it was in a small room and not the sanctuary. I was also surprised that there was only 12 people including me there. Since that is the only Catholic Church in town I thought there would be more people there.

I didn't get any great spiritual vibes like I was "home" or anything, but I did like the reverence of it all. I am planning on going again tomorrow.


You're way ahead of me, friend. I have yet to attend a Daily Mass, except on a Holy Day of Obligation. One day, however, I will, perhaps when school lets out and I have a weekday off from work. :pray:

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:05 pm 
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milby wrote:
Well I snuck into my first Mass this morning at the Catholic Church. I was surprised that it was in a small room and not the sanctuary. I was also surprised that there was only 12 people including me there. Since that is the only Catholic Church in town I thought there would be more people there.

I didn't get any great spiritual vibes like I was "home" or anything, but I did like the reverence of it all. I am planning on going again tomorrow.


is this the 7:15 Mass? that might be the problem...too late to attend and still make it to work for the most part...and probably too early for the everday joe catholic to go... our daily Mass is at 9 am, it is held in our Mary chapel, a separate building from the main church, and we'll have between 80-120 people regularly... our weekend Mass(we have 8 over 2 days) will probably average at least 1200

there is also quite a difference in content between a daily Mass and a weekend solemnity ... did you check out the link i provided?

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:15 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
milby wrote:
Well I snuck into my first Mass this morning at the Catholic Church. I was surprised that it was in a small room and not the sanctuary. I was also surprised that there was only 12 people including me there. Since that is the only Catholic Church in town I thought there would be more people there.

I didn't get any great spiritual vibes like I was "home" or anything, but I did like the reverence of it all. I am planning on going again tomorrow.


is this the 7:15 Mass? that might be the problem...too late to attend and still make it to work for the most part...and probably too early for the everday joe catholic to go... our daily Mass is at 9 am, it is held in our Mary chapel, a separate building from the main church, and we'll have between 80-120 people regularly... our weekend Mass(we have 8 over 2 days) will probably average at least 1200

there is also quite a difference in content between a daily Mass and a weekend solemnity ... did you check out the link i provided?


Yes it was the 7:15 mass. I just looked at your link. That is not what I experienced this morning. I will try to attend the longer one this weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Weekday mass is the best. I should go more often.

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:21 am 
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Bombadil wrote:
Weekday mass is the best. I should go more often.


Why do think that?

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:28 am 
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i was actually wondering the same thing milby...i have a guess but don't want to put words into bomby's mouth...so we'll wait for his reply :knit :popcorn

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:32 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
i was actually wondering the same thing milby...i have a guess but don't want to put words into bomby's mouth...so we'll wait for his reply :knit :popcorn

You brag about doing that all the time, FS, only you call it "force fingering." What makes today different? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:52 pm 
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cuz when i wondered it was last night...after bomb posted it...but i made the conscious decision not to ask it...so milby didn't "force finger" me... he just asked the same question i had but didn't ask... there ya go...clear as mud? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:27 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
cuz when i wondered it was last night...after bomb posted it...but i made the conscious decision not to ask it...so milby didn't "force finger" me... he just asked the same question i had but didn't ask... there ya go...clear as mud? :wink:

Should I expect any less from you, compadre?

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:03 pm 
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not that i am aware of... gotta at least maintain appearances anyway 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Milby, It's ok to go on Sunday too, but you have to get there early to sit in the back.

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:08 am 
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Daily Mass is usually smaller and quieter, for some people, this sort of quiet reverence is preferred to Sunday mass - standing room only, lots of distraction from those around you, loud music, no time for quiet prayer, etc. I think that God knew this, that is why He made Sunday Mass an obligation :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:07 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
ghall512 wrote:
... since this is milby's first foray to the board and it IS Cath 101 perhaps we should focus on his original question, which has been answered pretty well, and let him come back and guide the bus... just a thought :wink: :wave



Thanks. I have read three books so far. Rome sweet Home, Born Fundamentalist..Born again Catholic, and If Protestantism is true.

What other books would you recommend that I read.

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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:39 am 
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I think those three books are all very good...

If you're still looking for other books in a similar vein you could try:
- Four Witnesses (which takes a look at four early Church Fathers and shows their non-Protestant beliefs system)
- Evangelical is Not Enough (displays the value, sense, purpose and beauty of liturgy in general... a simple, quick read too)
- Lead Kindly Light (a more flowery version of similar books by converts... good, but doesn't use as many nuts and bolts)
- By What Authority (great book, and Shea has a unique, refreshing way of looking at the need for a Church tradition).
- Crossing the Tiber (by the host of this site, Steve Ray. Really, it mostly deals with Baptism and the Eucharist... but he does a very thorough job dealing with them. I wish I had consulted this work sooner).
- How to go from being a Good Evangelical to Committed Catholic in 95 Difficult Steps (this one is relatively new compared to the others, and I don't know a ton about the author's viewpoints, but... he seems orthodox AFAIK and the style he wrote it in and organized it in was GREAT for an ADDer like me. Probably my favorite for that reason alone).
- The Bible Made Impossible (written by a recent convert to the RCC while he was still an Evangelical. The second part of the book isn't quite as helpful, but the first part does a good job of tearing down Biblicism IMHO)

A different avenue to take might be to read some Catholic works that are not apologetic in nature. I enjoyed Prayer for Beginners by Kreeft and Time for God by Phillippe. Some of Scott Hahn's books (while they work equally well for purposes of apologetics) like Hail, Holy Queen and The Lamb's Supper offer some deep insight without being overly polemical. Have you tried reading part of the catechism yet? If not pick a category, find out where that info is covered (ask on DCF for recommendations) and go to town.

This approach is good because it can be frustrating to always view the Church's teaching viz-a-viz the Protestant viewpoints (I should know, I read those books over and over again and was always comparing). But if you aren't careful you can come to see every argument in a lockstep, point-counterpoint-counter,counterpoint way... your head can start to swim with debate. It happened to me... not that it means it will happen to you.

By simply reading Catholic teaching, Catholic thought, Catholic reflection on its own and for its own end you gain an appreciation of it for itself and on its own terms... not as part of a debate or a comparison. Of course at sometime you will have to compare it and make a decision of your own, but if you really spend time learning and getting into it for its own sake... you'll be better formed to make that decision.

And as a side note, don't do what I did... I think I tried to think my way home. Of course no one here would say that reading, thinking, and scrutinizing doctrine is profitless... but at the same time, we know that it can only get one so far. Prayer, listening for God and exercising the virtue of faith are more important. That has been the most common advice I've received on DCF (many thanks to Fr. Kenobi). It seemed like such elementary advice. It was too simple, I thought... it was something you'd tell a child and not at all "up to my level." Or so I thought...

Well, I've tried it the other way (not spending time in prayer and not acting on faith) and I can tell you from experience that I wish I hadn't. The confusion only got worse the more I ignored prayer and obedience, regardless of how much study I did. I brought a lot of that on myself. Turns out, I'm not on as "high a level" as I thought, and in reality I am a child (or at least in my faith, I need to become like one) and I needed that answer... more importantly I needed to do it! So please, from the goofball who made the wrong choice (but has hopefully learned his lesson), I highly recommend the priority of prayer approach! Don't learn the hard way, like me.

...and btw, I'm not suggesting you are ignoring prayer and faith by reading apologetics works. Im simply relating mistakes I made in hopes others might not have to make them.


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 Post subject: Re: seeking the truth
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:25 am 
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well said :clap:

baptist bumble wrote:
- Crossing the Tiber (by the host of this site, Steve Ray. Really, it mostly deals with Baptism and the Eucharist... but he does a very thorough job dealing with them. I wish I had consulted this work sooner)


well it wasn't for lack of recommendations :P :P :P :wave

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