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Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?
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Author:  Peetem [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

When does uncharitable talk become seriously sinful?

Since I'm overly scrupulous, making good decisions about when its time to get my bottom into the confessional can be difficult.

I made a rather snarky and uncharitable comment on an internet discussion. In essence I said, "Great, their degree will lead to future contestants on Design Star." I wasn't speaking about a specific person but rather a degree program at a university. In retrospect the comment could have hurt many feelings....

So I'm thinking about the question posted above in both general terms and my situation in specific. I'm working hard to learn to tame my tongue in general...

Thanks!

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.

Author:  ellietrish [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

I always enjoy robust discussions about stuff, even when passionate exchanges occur. But my pet hate of all is the use of sarcasm and contempt. I believe Matthew addresses it too in 5:21-22.

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ (Aramaic for contempt) is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

We all say things rashly sometimes, but so much is mended by a prompt apology I think.

Author:  pax [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


What if it causes your brother to stumble?

Author:  Peetem [ Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


OK - thanks father.

I've always wondered about that....

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

pax wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


What if it causes your brother to stumble?

Forseeably or unforseeably?

Author:  Norwegianblue [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
pax wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


What if it causes your brother to stumble?

Forseeably or unforseeably?


When you ask 'foreseeably or unforeseeably' do you mean something that one is able to to foresee or something one actually kind of actively foresees? When one talks about causing one's brother to stumble in this context of serious sin, does one mean stumble in any degree of sin or in a serious way?

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Were you aware at the time that you said it that it would be a major stumbling block for someone?

Author:  pax [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Were you aware at the time that you said it that it would be a major stumbling block for someone?


I think that every child of God knows that any and all uncharitable speech will be a stumbling block.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

His question was not, "Is it sinful?", but "How sinful?" We are not responsible for every conceivable result of our actions—only the ones that are reasonably foreseeable. It is wrong to speak uncharitably, but in general it is a venial sin.

Author:  pax [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
His question was not, "Is it sinful?", but "How sinful?" We are not responsible for every conceivable result of our actions—only the ones that are reasonably foreseeable. It is wrong to speak uncharitably, but in general it is a venial sin.


Are there any mortal sins left on the books :scratch:

Author:  Jayne [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


What if you are genuinely wishing something bad on someone? You don't say it, but you have a silent hope (almost a prayer - though I hope the good Lord ignores it!), that they "learn their lesson".

I work in a call centre and when I deal with someone who is rude and knows "better" (usually the most ignorant) I do often hope that one day, they'll learn they were wrong. I don't mind when people don't do what I want (I'm in insurance), but it annoys me to no end then they want to argue with me that x is identical to y.

I regularly have the thought "no, it isn't, and one day I hope you have x happen to you and then you'll wish you'd listened". x been a major car accident or a house burning down or some such. If they're happy receiving an inferior product (I always achknowledge when it's equivalent or if I don't know) then that's cool, just don't talk down to me about how it's better. If it was better, it wouldn't be half the price.

Author:  Peetem [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Jayne wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


What if you are genuinely wishing something bad on someone? You don't say it, but you have a silent hope (almost a prayer - though I hope the good Lord ignores it!), that they "learn their lesson".

I work in a call centre and when I deal with someone who is rude and knows "better" (usually the most ignorant) I do often hope that one day, they'll learn they were wrong. I don't mind when people don't do what I want (I'm in insurance), but it annoys me to no end then they want to argue with me that x is identical to y.

I regularly have the thought "no, it isn't, and one day I hope you have x happen to you and then you'll wish you'd listened". x been a major car accident or a house burning down or some such. If they're happy receiving an inferior product (I always achknowledge when it's equivalent or if I don't know) then that's cool, just don't talk down to me about how it's better. If it was better, it wouldn't be half the price.


IMHO there is wanting "justice" versus wanting "harm". Justice is good. Harm is obviously very wrong.

Pax or Father can better speak to the "justice" part....

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

I don't think such thoughts are spiritually healthy.

Author:  Jayne [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

They're definitely not spiritually healthy, and it is something I'm working on. Unhealthy and sinful however aren't the same thing.

Author:  ellietrish [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Jayne wrote:
They're definitely not spiritually healthy, and it is something I'm working on. Unhealthy and sinful however aren't the same thing.


The other reality is most often, if someone does get their just desserts, you don't get any satisfaction from the justice aspect afterall. You are more whelmed with sorrow for their sufferings. Experiencing that outcome helps to abate the irritation in subsequent situations in your life, I find.

Author:  Jayne [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

ellietrish wrote:
Jayne wrote:
They're definitely not spiritually healthy, and it is something I'm working on. Unhealthy and sinful however aren't the same thing.


The other reality is most often, if someone does get their just desserts, you don't get any satisfaction from the justice aspect afterall. You are more whelmed with sorrow for their sufferings. Experiencing that outcome helps to abate the irritation in subsequent situations in your life, I find.


I don't know that I do though. You heard about the massive floods Australia had this time last year? That was my home city. I feel for those who were deceived by their insurance companies, but I don't for those who choose their insurance because they were "happy to take the risk". Well, they took the risk and they lost. If they just achknowledged that and then asked for help I'd be cool, but when they try and put the blame on their insurance company when they made the decision not to be covered, I have no sympathy. They opted out.. it's not their insurance companies fault, it's theirs. I'm not pleased they got their just desserts, but I'm not overly upset about their situation either.

Author:  Norwegianblue [ Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's seriously sinful when it's done with a desire to hurt someone badly.


I'm just wondering, since the OP was about a general comment made in a discussion, whether this measure holds also for a comment made directly to a person in an argument.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

In general, yes, though in a heated argument we are able to exert less self-control, which means culpability is likely reduced.

Author:  Norwegianblue [ Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uncharitable Speech - How sinful?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
In general, yes, though in a heated argument we are able to exert less self-control, which means culpability is likely reduced.


Thanks.

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