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communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=139422
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Author:  pax [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Cubano wrote:
Doom wrote:
Cubano wrote:
I'm going to do something I have been trying to avoid, but I just want to see what happens. My opinion is a Catholic has NO BUSINESS attending service in any other place/ religion outside of The Church. EVAH.



You're going against the Church on that one....what the Church allows, you have no right to forbid.


Does this mean the Church is wrong in forbidding contraception and abortion? What the State permits they have no right to forbid?


That doesn't make any sense.

The Church allows us to attend other services, but not to do any act which presumes a complete communion with heretics and/or schismatics.

Author:  Cubano [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

this all went to pot 'cause Doom said I "forbade" someone from doing something the Church allows.. I never forbade anyone from doing anything, I just do not have that power..
anyways he said "what the Church permits, I cannot forbid.." so twist the logic around and I wonder, does he (Doom) then support the notion "What the State permits, the Church cannot forbid?"

Author:  pax [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Cubano wrote:
this all went to pot 'cause Doom said I "forbade" someone from doing something the Church allows.. I never forbade anyone from doing anything, I just do not have that power..
anyways he said "what the Church permits, I cannot forbid.." so twist the logic around and I wonder, does he (Doom) then support the notion "What the State permits, the Church cannot forbid?"


That doesn't work either simply because Doom and everyone else is acting on the certain knowledge that the Church is the highest authority.

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Cubano wrote:
I do not know of ministers or pastors outside of the priesthood that can perform Transubstantiation and turn the host and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.
Orthodox priests.
Catholic priests who have left the Church and joined other denominations, for instance Anglican/Episcopalian churches.
Priests ordained into some old-catholic churches like the PNCC.

Author:  Cubano [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Closet Catholic wrote:
Cubano wrote:
I do not know of ministers or pastors outside of the priesthood that can perform Transubstantiation and turn the host and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.
Orthodox priests.
Catholic priests who have left the Church and joined other denominations, for instance Anglican/Episcopalian churches.
Priests ordained into some old-catholic churches like the PNCC.


while I wasn't excluding the Orthodox, I wasn't thinking about those those who had left to join other denominations, I just didn't even consider it.. thanks for bringing it up The reason I made the point was to say "the Body and Blood of Christ would not be received .." if one went to a service outside of the Catholicism. There may be an ex-priest here or there, but it is not the general rule. Out of curiosity, would an ex-priest still perform Transubstantiation?

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Cubano wrote:
Out of curiosity, would an ex-priest still perform Transubstantiation?
Yes, but illicitly (and probably gravely sinful).

Author:  faithfulservant [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

in 3, 2, 1..... 8-)

Author:  pax [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

It is really simple: If you communicate with those who are in schism, then you cease to communicate with those who are not in schism, and vice-versa.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]

Author:  Cubano [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]


ok, what verb should I use? (i ask sincerely)

Author:  pax [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Cubano wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]


ok, what verb should I use? (i ask sincerely)


confect

Author:  Cubano [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

lemme just :incense :incense :incense for a minute here

Author:  Peregrinator [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Cubano wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]


ok, what verb should I use? (i ask sincerely)

Celebrate, confect, offer are all good words

Author:  Cubano [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

thanks..

Author:  cloudyday [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

pax wrote:
It is really simple: If you communicate with those who are in schism, then you cease to communicate with those who are not in schism, and vice-versa.


There was a post earlier in the thread from Master Obi-Wan saying that Catholics may receive communion in an Orthodox church. But I assume the Catholics still consider the Orthodox schismatics or heretics. My uncle who is Catholic told me that Orthodox can receive communion in a Catholic church under certain circumstances.

Also, if denomination A and denomination B both acknowledge that God is gracing their Eucharist how can they be out of communion with each other? Maybe the creeds are different but obviously God isn't concerned with those details so why should the churches?

Author:  Highlander [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

anna1978 wrote:
I agree, most of my Protestant friends DO believe the Catholics to be Christians-they may disagree about the role of the Pope or other things, but I've never heard any of them say 'You're not a Christian!'
I have.

Some of more enthusiastic fundamentalist friends have labeled the Church as a cult, a deviation from the historic church, an impediment to salvation -- and most agree that the Church is in grievous error. Oh, and that they, and only they, are truly Christian.

Author:  bill ahlers [ Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill

Author:  cloudyday [ Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

bill ahlers wrote:
Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill


Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt crazy. I'm back to being nearly 100% atheist now, but I think if my experiences had anything to do with God then I probably can make many mistakes and still get to wherever God wants me.

Author:  bill ahlers [ Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill
cloudyday wrote:
bill ahlers wrote:
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt crazy. I'm back to being nearly 100% atheist now, but I think if my experiences had anything to do with God then I probably can make many mistakes and still get to wherever God wants me.


God will help you along the way. If you had an experience He's calling you for a reason. You COULD have had a mental break and thats all but what if it wasn't? How much time do you have to listen?

Author:  cloudyday [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church

bill ahlers wrote:
Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill
cloudyday wrote:
bill ahlers wrote:
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt crazy. I'm back to being nearly 100% atheist now, but I think if my experiences had anything to do with God then I probably can make many mistakes and still get to wherever God wants me.


God will help you along the way. If you had an experience He's calling you for a reason. You COULD have had a mental break and thats all but what if it wasn't? How much time do you have to listen?


That idea "he's calling you for a reason" was my motivation for trying. In some ways I think I am hiding from the truth because it scares me. My Christian beliefs from childhood are the source of the fear. Oh well.

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