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 Post subject: What Sins are intrinsically evil?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Journeyman
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Abortion...and what else?

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Last edited by Nathan on Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:12 pm 
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It would take way to long to post a list. Read the CCC.


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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:18 pm 
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I don't understand the question, are suggesting that there are sins that are NOT immoral? :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:28 pm 
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All sins are objectively immoral; the only sort-of-exceptions are things that a person thinks is sinful but really aren't, because he sins in doing them, not because they are wrong of themselves, but because he is willingly making a choice for sin. And even there, there's the objective wrong of deliberately choosing that which you believe to be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:40 pm 
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I suspect Nathan wants to know about things that are intrinsically evil, and just worded the question clumsily.

So for instance, abortion is intrinsically evil because of the nature of the act. On the other hand, drinking alcohol is morally neutral in itself, but can become sinful if done carelessly, or with the intent to get drunk.

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:43 am 
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Speed Racer wrote:
I suspect Nathan wants to know about things that are intrinsically evil, and just worded the question clumsily.

So for instance, abortion is intrinsically evil because of the nature of the act. On the other hand, drinking alcohol is morally neutral in itself, but can become sinful if done carelessly, or with the intent to get drunk.


This is what I thought he meant too. Clarification would be helpful nonetheless.


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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:57 am 
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You can go here and search for "intrinsic evil" or "intrinsically evil" or "intrinsically disordered"

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Some examples that come from such a search:

1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one's neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving).

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.

2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.


Scripture speaks of four sins that cry out to heaven, this is a good article on those:

https://www.catholicculture.org/comment ... .cfm?id=29

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Journeyman
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I meant intrinsically evil. I couldn't think of the term.

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:41 pm 
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The easiest way to look at it that I know of is that prohibitions (thou shalt not ...) always deal with intrinsic evil, whereas obligations (thou shalt ...) admit of exceptions. For example, it is not a sin to miss Mass on Sunday if you're sick, but it's always a sin to take an innocent life deliberately.

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Citizen
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
All sins are objectively immoral; the only sort-of-exceptions are things that a person thinks is sinful but really aren't, because he sins in doing them, not because they are wrong of themselves, but because he is willingly making a choice for sin. And even there, there's the objective wrong of deliberately choosing that which you believe to be wrong.



You mean like how some Christians celebrate Christmas even thought they believe it ti be wrong...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQhKuTixTs

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 Post subject: Re: What Sins are objective immoral?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:28 pm 
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If one wants to delve deeper there is the consideration of an act's ordination to your final end (God), either directly or through the natural law. Things against the 1st precepts of the natural law are per se immoral... but not always things against secondary precepts.

To clarify- sodomy, polyandry, contraception, fornication are intrinsically evil since they not only hinder certain natural ends, but obstruct the primary end of sex in some way (even fornication, but the union of family needed for educating the child that may be produced is absent). But polygyny is not intrinsically evil, but against the secondary precepts of the natural law, because the 1st end (the begetting and educating of children) is not frustrated, but other ends (such as the union of spouses) are diminished. For the sake of the primary end, then, it can be permitted (by God), though it is for the most part immoral.

Likewise, taking a good that belongs to another is for the most part wrong not always, since all earthly goods were primordially given to man in common and are to be used in light of the common good. So in extreme cases, like starvation, it is not a sin to take what you could not otherwise obtain to live. But, generally, the good of man is served by the distribution of private property, and hence stealing is a sin.

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