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 Post subject: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Journeyman
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There's a definite lineage of succession for St Peter all the way to Pope Francis.
Is there a similar succession for all of the other Apostles too? A continuous chain from then up until today?

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Actually your first statement is incorrect to some degree. Setting aside some uncertainty about some of the early successors to St. Peter, "apostolic succession" more properly refers to the fact that all bishops can in theory trace their lineage back to an apostle. See CCC 1567.

I say, "in theory," because the records are uncertain before the 1500s. Most bishops are "descendants" of Cardinal Scipio Rebiba, and while there's no doubt he was legitimately a bishop, there's no record of who made him one.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Actually your first statement is incorrect to some degree. Setting aside some uncertainty about some of the early successors to St. Peter, "apostolic succession" more properly refers to the fact that all bishops can in theory trace their lineage back to an apostle. See CCC 1567.

I say, "in theory," because the records are uncertain before the 1500s. Most bishops are "descendants" of Cardinal Scipio Rebiba, and while there's no doubt he was legitimately a bishop, there's no record of who made him one.


I actually a wee bit bothered by this.....

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
I actually a wee bit bothered by this.....


Is it reasonable to expect that there would exist 2,000 years worth of written records from literally thousands if not tens of thousands of different dioceses all over the world? And keep in mind that keeping written records of every little thing is something that really only began in the early modern era.

We don't even know who the identity of the mother of Benjamin Franklin's son, despite the fact that Franklin's life was one of the heavily documented lives of the 18th century, so how could we possibly know who ordained bishop Joe Blow in Something, Spain in 563?


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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Actually your first statement is incorrect to some degree. Setting aside some uncertainty about some of the early successors to St. Peter, "apostolic succession" more properly refers to the fact that all bishops can in theory trace their lineage back to an apostle. See CCC 1567.

I say, "in theory," because the records are uncertain before the 1500s. Most bishops are "descendants" of Cardinal Scipio Rebiba, and while there's no doubt he was legitimately a bishop, there's no record of who made him one.


I actually a wee bit bothered by this.....

I was at first, too, but there is no way he would have been allowed to function as a bishop for 36 years if there had been the slightest doubt that he was one.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:22 pm 
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One thing to remember is three bishops, generally, consecrate another. Even were one a rraud...

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:35 am 
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Most of the pre-16th century consecrations were in Europe and sadly what limited documentation that existed was largely destroyed in the Protestant Revolt (some say Reformation).

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Actually your first statement is incorrect to some degree. Setting aside some uncertainty about some of the early successors to St. Peter, "apostolic succession" more properly refers to the fact that all bishops can in theory trace their lineage back to an apostle. See CCC 1567.

I say, "in theory," because the records are uncertain before the 1500s. Most bishops are "descendants" of Cardinal Scipio Rebiba, and while there's no doubt he was legitimately a bishop, there's no record of who made him one.


I actually a wee bit bothered by this.....

I was at first, too, but there is no way he would have been allowed to function as a bishop for 36 years if there had been the slightest doubt that he was one.


Makes sense. Thanks.

I’m sure somewhere in the past it was a descendant of Gherkin’s fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:38 am 
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Peetem wrote:

I’m sure somewhere in the past it was a descendant of Gherkin’s fault.
Who is this Gherkin of whom you speak?

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:43 pm 
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He is the nous of which gherkin is the demiurge.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Just to be safe, let's ban gherkin *and* Gherkin.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Board names are not case significant.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Classic blunder on my part. One should never capitalize the name of “him who’s name should not be typed or said.”

My apologies to everyone on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Just be careful not to go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:10 pm 
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Apostolic Succession for all of the Apostles?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:50 pm 
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ban /gherkin/i

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